1. How is the Romantic notion of the Sublime reflected
in the ideological, conceptual and linguistic construction of the texts under
consideration in this Romanticism reader? Discuss one or two examples...
2. Go online and see if you can find out anything about what
really happened at the Villa Diodati that fateful summer in 1816...
3. How many fictional accounts (film and other narrative media) can you find about that? Provide some useful links, including Youtube clips (hint: for a start try Ken Russel Gothic on Youtube).
4. Discuss the links between the Villa Diodati "brat-pack" and the birth of Gothic as a modern genre with reference to specific texts by the authors who gathered there and subsequent texts (e.g. The Vampire >> Dracula, etc).
3. How many fictional accounts (film and other narrative media) can you find about that? Provide some useful links, including Youtube clips (hint: for a start try Ken Russel Gothic on Youtube).
4. Discuss the links between the Villa Diodati "brat-pack" and the birth of Gothic as a modern genre with reference to specific texts by the authors who gathered there and subsequent texts (e.g. The Vampire >> Dracula, etc).
1. How is the Romantic notion of the Sublime reflected in the ideological, conceptual and linguistic construction of the texts under consideration in this Romanticism reader? Discuss one or two examples...
ReplyDeleteAs discussed in class and from the Pateman (2004) article we know that a sublime “amazement, wonder or aw in virtue of it’s ambition, scope or a passion which seems to drive” the literary work. It has the “power to ‘entrance’ us, to ‘transport us with wonder’ as opposed to merely persuading or pleasing us” (Pateman, 2004). It is an irresistible force that can only be achieved by “those artists who are able to form ‘grand conceptions’ and are pre possessed by ‘powerful and inspired emotion’” (Pateman, 2004). The sublime produces admiration and in return produces terror. What terrifies us? The fear of pain (Pateman, 2004). Pateman (2004) says that we are drawn to things that cause us pain and in retrospect we seek pleasure and shun pain.
For this question I decided to look at the sublime for ‘Manfred, a Dramatic Poem’ and analyze the sublime. For me, in this literary work I find that they sublime reflects the ideological, conceptual and linguistic construction of this era, but is less obvious than I would have assumed for a work written in this era. To me I would have assumed that a sublime in a work from the Romantic era would be about love and pain and the connection between the two but in a literal sense. Literally, love of a woman and the pain the follows. In this piece after research is appears that the sublime is more about personal freedom and Manfred’s view on the world
It appears that in the Romantic era, the sublime was a major part in the construction of literary works. The sublime was at its highpoint of theory and practise (Balfour, 2005). The sublime was often seen as negative lust that pain and pleasure tug of war. It tended to be a individuals perception of an overwhelming feeling of the subject (Balfour, 2005). Lord Byron was a major figure in the European culture even after his death in regards to the use of the sublime (Balfour, 2005). The ‘Byronic Sublime’ is unlike any other sublime in classical poetics or modern aesthetic theory (Melaney, 2005). It is linked to an event that is suffered rather than accomplished. It is often endured in silence than in expressible verbal terms (Melaney, 2005). The romantic lyric seems to be a metaphor for the tormented self and the sublime focuses on those moments. The sublime in Manfred demonstrates the experience as an individual and personal chaos to the degree that it “contributes to psychic over determination rather than to the possibility of moral wisdom” (Melaney, 2005). The sublime in Manfred expresses a conflict that can’t be resolved easily over time.
I like that you brought up what Patemate said about how we are drawn to the things that are painful or terrible to seek pleasure but at the same time shun them. There is a specific circumstance in which this applies and as Pateman said,, "this paradox can be dissolved by saying that we find pleasure in the encounter with imagined or fictional pain". So as soon as this pain is inflicted on us in anyway, then the pleasure is gone.
DeleteLooking at the sublime with that pleasure/pain aspect we view poems in a darker point of view. As with the Chimney Sweeper, the parts where the narrator blames the church and God stand out the most. As it says "And are gone to praise God & his Priest & King/ Who make yo a heaven of our misery" (11-12). With this kind of pain, these lines stand out to the readers the most because they are relatable. It is easier to relate to other's pain than pleasure. The word that is most important is 'misery' because that is the kind of pain that had the ability to hurt us most. This is the simplest typer of sublime- because it is created within us and we either destroy it or add to it and let it consume us. The most powerful sublime is created in our own minds and the importance we put into certain things comes from the power of our thoughts.
Pateman, T. (2004, 1991) ‘The Sublime’ in Key Concepts: A Guide to Aesthetics, Criticism and the Arts in Education.London: Falmer Press, pp 169 - 171
Melaney describes the role of the sublime in Manfred as his view of the world. It emphasizes the psychic conflict of the mind of the protagonist, in turn is a “spectacle of an individual who is haunted by the past (2005). This shows that Byron uses symbolism to describe a romantic view of the imagination and how it can be related to ethical concerns (Melaney, 2005). Melaney says that the sublime anticipates the protagonist’s own fate and creates a mental drama. I think that this mental unstableness is visible through out the entire poem, even from the start
ReplyDeleteThe lamp must be replenish’d, but even then
It will not burn so long as I must watch.
My slumbers – if I slumber- are not sleep
But a continuance of enduring though (Lines 1-4)
While Melaney describes the sublime of Manfred as his perception of the world, Balfour (2005) says that sublime can never be described simply as a specific topic or even a structure. But Balfour does agree that Byron’s sublime is a matter of freedom (2005). Byron’s Manfred achieves “superiority over the cosmic forces he summons up” to fight the mental drama that has been created (Belfour, 2005). It appears that the sublime is a reference to an experience that is boundless (Melaney, 2005). This internal battle is a great example of things that can cause us pain. It appears that Manfred’s view on the world is a painful one, and we tend to shun pain and that’s his mental battle that Melaney was talking about. Manfred is seeking pleasure and shunning pain internally.
references
Balfour, I. (2005). Genres of the sublime: Byronic tragedy, manfred, and “the alpine journal” in the light of some european contemporaries. Revue de l'Université de Moncton, 3-25. Retrieved from http://www.erudit.org/revue/rum/2005/v/nrum1455/014324ar.pdf
Melaney, W. D. (2005). ambiguous difference: Ethical concern in byron's manfred. New Literary History, 36(3), 461-475. Retrieved from http://www.academia.edu/2129874/Ambiguous_Difference_Ethical_Concern_in_Byrons_Manfred
More, P. E. (1905). The poetical works of byron. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Pateman, T. (2004, 1991) ‘The Sublime’ in Key Concepts: A Guide to Aesthetics, Criticism and the Arts in Education.London: Falmer Press, pp 169 - 171
Whoa, that was pretty insightful description of 'sublime' there Emma! Thanks! I was pretty confused at what sublime was at the beginning, but you gave me a pretty good idea.
ReplyDeleteSo like you notes, it isn't something quite black and white. I had the understanding that sublime was: "Unrestrained emotional experience for the individual" (P.2 Sparknotes N.d) and like you mentioned, "from forms of expression which have the power to `entrance' us, to `transport us with wonder', as opposed to merely persuading or pleasing us." (P.2 Pateman 2004,1991).
With Manfred, I completely agree that his mental drama and having control over the spirits he conjures, makes the reader/audience wonder about their own past and inner troubles.
According to Canual (2012) Manfred's spirit world "Mirror Burkeon notion of the sublime as a threatening external power"
So I guess with Mafred, the reader/audience are pulled into an awe, inspired to think and inspire. Manfred's story of conjuring spirits and how they speak to Manfred, how he deals with them and his unnamed crime makes the audience have strong emotion about the text. It will make people scared, angry, horrified (at the crime Manfred committed) and that coincides with the romantic notion of sublime.
Reference:
Pateman, T. (2004, 1991) ‘The Sublime’ in Key Concepts: A Guide to Aesthetics, Criticism and the Arts in Education.London: Falmer Press, pp 169 - 171
Sparknotes (n.d) Retreived 16th of May from http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/frankenstein/themes.html
Canuel, M (2012) Justice, Dissent, and the Sublime. JHU Press
2. Go online and see if you can find out anything about what really happened at the Villa Diodati that fateful summer in 1816...
ReplyDeleteHere's what I have found so far:
1.Villa Diodati was also known as Villa BelleRive
2.It was Byron who proposed "We will each write a ghost story"
3.They started to write the stories before July 16th 1816
4. They were confined in the house for days as the weather was horrible. The Tambora volcano had erupted and the ashes caused the sun to be blocked and temperature to drop. (Not many in Europe knew this fact) "But it proved a wet, ungenial summer, and incessant rain often confined us for days to the house," she recorded in the diary she kept of her six-week summer tour of Europe in 1816. (p.3 Bechtel and Beaumont)
6. The Frankenstein was an idea from Mary Shelley's dreams: "I saw the hideous phantasm of a man stretched out, and then, on the working of some powerful engine, show signs of life, and stir with an uneasy, half-vital motion. Frightful must it be; for supremely frightful would be the effect of any human endeavour to mock the stupendous Creator of the world."(p.19 Bechtel and Beaumont)
7. They had a lot of German horror stories to read in the house.
Sorry my findings seem tad - short of some kind of supernatural scene, but hey? volcanoes?
From The Diary of Dr. John William Polidori: 1816, Relating to Byron, Shelley, etc. (n.d) Retrieved 16th of May 2013 from http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Polidori/poldiary.html
Bechtel D, Beaumont A (2006) The creation of Lake Geneva Monster. Retrieved 16th of May from http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/specials/extraordinary_exiles/The_creation_of_the_Lake_Geneva_monster.html?cid=12808
haha Jen, I found very similar things to you, just in more detail. Definitely nothing supernatural, but actually from very funny things. I had to dig deep to find all the specifics, but this is what I got. Although for the record.. i had no idea a volcano erupted. Cool!
ReplyDeleteSo the Summer of June 1816.
The Shellys, Lord Byron and the entourage of Mary Godwin, Claire Clairmont and John Polidor (who was Bryons personal physician, rent out the Villa Diodati for the Summer (Finden, n.d p.1). The Villa Diodati was by lake Geneva. Apparently the year of 1816 was the year for meteorologists and was considered the year without summer (Ellis, 2011 p.1). This was also the year that followed Byron's ending marriage and he had just left england forever (Ellis, 2011, p.1).
On June 15th the weather had been so bad that the weather forced them to spend the night indoors and Byron suggest that each person write and share a ghost story each (Melton, 2011 pg.96). Byron said no one could stop until they had come up with a decent outline of some sort that was haunting in some way (Sanders, 2009 pg 174). Two evenings later was when everyone got together and began telling their ghost stories. Obviously, the most serious one to come out from this charade was Frankenstein. Godwin's story from this night was successful in expanding into a full novel (Melton, 2011 pg.96). This night turned into a literally success for everyone except for Byron. Byron was the only one who had trouble and never created anything he though was worth while (Sanders, 2009 pg 174). At first it was great fun but no one could stop telling ghost stories, they all became compulsive talkers and listeners and became obsessed with their nightly storytelling, it was like group therapy (Rosenber, 1968).
From the story that Bryon was trying to create, Polidori kept notes on (Melton, 2011 pg. 96). He and Bryon attempted to work on it together before Bryon decided to scrap the whole idea and write the third canto of Childe Harold's Pilgrimage (King, 1816 p.3). Throughout this summer, Polidori grew jealous of the Byron-Shelly friendship (Rosenberg, 1968 pg. 81). Eventually it got to him so much that he hysterically challenged Shelley to a pistol duel causing him to be curelly dismissed by Byron (Rosenberg, 1968 pg. 81). Polidori's revenge was finish the plot that Bryon gave to him (Rosenberg, 1968 pg.81). Polidor ended up creating "The Vampyre" out of his notes from Byron's tale (Melton, 2011 pg.96).
So, as for me... no supernatural findings. But i definitely found some interesting facts on that summer.
references:
Ellis, D. (2011). Byron in geneva: That summer of 1816. Liverpool: Liverpool University press. Retrieved from http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10840984-byron-in-geneva
Finden, E. (n.d.). Villa diodati, where mary shelley conceived of frankenstein. Retrieved from http://shelleysghost.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/diodati-the-residence-of-lord-byron
King, S. (1816, June 19). Frankenstein, milton & the computer. Retrieved from http://www.todayinliterature.com/stories.asp?Event_Date=6/19/1816
Melton, J. G. (2011). The vampire book: The encyclopedia of the undead. Canton, Mi: Visible Ink Press.
Rosenberg, S. (1968, March 15). Happy sesquicentenncial, dear montser. LIFE, 64(2), 74-84. Retrieved from http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=5EwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80&dq=what happened Villa Diodati 1816&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PGKUUc-jIoTilAWxg4CgBA&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCA
Sanders, B. (2009). Unsuspecting souls: The human disappearance of the human being. Berkeley, Ca: Countrerpoint.
I have chosen to explain the romantic notion of the sublime by comparing two texts.
ReplyDeleteThe best way I could think of describing the ‘Pain is a Pleasure’ idea of the Sublime was actually considering another relevant text that we studied a few weeks ago called ‘Ice and Fire’ by Edmund Spencer.
This poem explains so precisely the idea about how humans are attracted to things that will bring dramatic pain yet we still seek it. The line in the poem;
“How comes it then that this her cold so great
Is not dissolved through my so hot desire,
But harder grows the more I her entreat?”
Spencer explains how the more he expresses love for this woman, the more this woman shuns his feelings, causing him heartbreak and agony. He should not be attracted to something or someone that will just cause him pain. He knows that she will not love him back but the colder she is to him, the more in love he falls;
“Or how comes it that my exceeding heat
Is not allayed by her heart-frozen cold,
But that I burn much more in boiling sweat”
This idea of the ‘romantic notion of the sublime’ is similar to the idea that we as humans tend let things bring us pain, In hopes of seeking an ultimate pleasure.
We do not set out to cause ourselves pain, but the prize looks more desirable if we know we had to go through pain to achieve it.
Just as Mirielles comment states before, Pateman said "this paradox can be dissolved by saying that we find pleasure in the encounter with imagined or fictional pain".
I do not think Spencer would have fallen in love so deeply, nor written a poem about the same girl if she had been obsessed with him and his affection for her.
Holli's analysis continued...
ReplyDeleteHowever focusing more on the 18-19th century writers of romanticism and social order and religion, I chose to focus on the text “The Chimney Sweeper” by William Blake.
The poem ‘The Chimney Sweeper’ has another idea about the romantic notion of the sublime. The Chimney Sweeper is the poem about a boy born into poverty with only one parent. His Father sells him to be a chimney sweeper – This act alone showing how pitiable and poor this boy’s family and social class must have been. The boy befriends other children that are also chimney sweepers, they are sad. However! There is hope! The boy learns that there is a place called Heaven and if all the children do their duty well, one day they will be rewarded by being taken into heaven by God and will have amazing adventures, such as the poem states;
“Then down a green plain leaping laughing they run
And wash in a river and shine in the sun”.
This poem shows the absolute innocence of a child’s mind, a romantic idea of a paradise that he will deserve once he has done his duties as a child chimney sweep.
This poem highlights a society where ignorance is bliss and they can all accept their place in their social classes. Young boys will be sold and exploited in a duty of child labour, poverty and a job that will undoubtedly result in a slow poisonous death of lung cancer.
This poem is built upon the idea that the Sublime rules all. People are not willing to change their social class or change the way they treat other human beings (especially children) because they have a blind hope that is set around suffering now and being rewarded with an eternal paradise.
This is why this era is possibly called ‘The Death of God”. It shows a break away from Christianity ruling over people and individuals starting to think for themselves.
The pain is a pleasure factor comes into this poem I think when the Angel tells the boy that there is a heaven to look forward to… The thought of a sudden relief of terror is just as pleasurable as an actual relief of this terrible life the child lives.
Burke has before quoted the sublime as "the strongest emotion which the mind is capable of feeling".
I think that Spencers and Blake’s poems relate in the sense that they show how humans are willing to experience pain to seek their ultimate pleasure. The chimney sweeper child is willing to let himself be exploited and used his whole life to seek the pleasure of heaven once he is dead. When he could try changing his social class and fighting the system that has him in chains.
Spencer’s poem is similar; the man is willing to love for eternity a woman that clearly does not share the same love interest for him. In fact, she begins to dislike him the more he tries to love her.
In both instances, either the sublime or the romantic notion that is merely ‘hope’ has them in chains because ultimately both people are only receiving pain and the IDEA of an intangible pleasure.
REFERENCES:
Pateman, T. (2004, 1991) ‘The Sublime’ in Key Concepts: A Guide to Aesthetics, Criticism and the Arts in Education.London: Falmer Press, pp 169 – 171
Burke, Edmund. A Philosophical Enquiry into the Sublime and Beautiful and Other Pre-Revolutionary Writings. Ed. David Wormersley. London: Penguin, 1998.
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ReplyDeleteAh Holli, you know what? When we first start discussing the sublime in class my first though was in fact the 'fire and ice' poem. You're very right. The sublime in that poem is definitely a literal pleasure vs. pain. He loves her so much but it is unbearably painful because she does not feel the same.
ReplyDeleteBut as you pointed out the sublime can be about anything that is pleasurable and that drives an incentive in us to continue life, to continue what ever it is that is so painful for us. I really like your reference of Blake's poem. If you had asked me a week ago to define the sublime in this poem, i wouldn't have been able to. Just like Byron's 'Manfred'. I think you definitely hit the nail on the head. The sublime doesn't have to be about LOVE, it just has to be about the idea of an intangible pleasure.